Father-Son Ministry:Reassessing Apostolic and Prophetic Perspectives

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Scripture speaks of this clearly but churches ignore these passages or blame other churches but not themselves. That what happened to me and my family. There IS something wrong with the many churches. I came from Holiness and other related backgrounds where members showed love and an earnest desire to help the others in the Body of Christ. When I left and came to the grace churches, I was open to accept others as my brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, as the 3 years went on, I was horrified at the huge laxness a majority of the members had. Nobody in one church wanted or even asked me to their homes for fellowship. And when I would give Scriptures or other gifts to them, as led by the Holy Spirit, they would either give the gift to someone else ad avoid me, or they would just give it back a short time later to which I refused. I discovered many who were at church, especially bigger churches, where they were Sunday Only Christians who were there just to dip their big toe in the water and call it a day.

One song leader was full of himself when an elderly brother told him, kindly, that the music decibals were too loud. The elderly brother said there was no Scriptural basis for playing loud — overly loud music. I met the man myself and I know, first hand, a carnal spirit when I see one. They and their relatives snubbed me and walked away.

Now I know we are supposed to go to church to fellowship with God first and foremost and the Bible tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves. The latter these days is becoming an increasingly discouraging problem. When a majority of the brothers and sisters are cold, formal, distant and un-accepting, this can become a snare. Many and many of them are not used to or interested in being prayed for out of the blue. Well, there are major flurries of cold, dry, formal and distant people where I attend that seem to be stumbling blocks to genuine.

These churches forget another they must seriously consider: Jesus was condemned and made out to be a lunatic by who — — the organized religious institutions. It is in desperate need of a revival. Brethren in Christ, I await your answers for are we not to be irons sharpening irons? Well, with the church I have been in for almost a year now, there are no irons sharpening mine — yet.

I would say this is a Code Red Alert in many churches. After a latest incident with a cold, distant and formal member, I am seriously considering leaving the grace movement and going back to the Holiness movement. At least over there, they have conduct, order and doctrine. And many of the people show what they believe. I apologize to you all ad to God for sounding a bit frustrated. I am going to seriously pray over this matter. Just my take on all of this. Correction: I said I was seriously considering leaving the grace movement.

That was a tad hasty. Sure, they have the programs and organization but not the people. This is why I believe many, if not most, people who think they are saved are not. Most people who believe they are believers do so because they prayed a prayer one time in their life and got baptized. Not only have they not shown any fruit in their life they have no conversion testimony to speak of.

People are suppose to examine and test themselves. I agree with you. If you even disagree a little they rather kick you out instead of investigating what is really going on. I agree Steve. I just read a post from my pastor to a woman who has had a migraine for 3 days and he said come to church on Sunday and be anointed with oil.

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Entitlement mentality? All I want to do is serve, but almost am never asked even after making it very clear that anything that is needed just ask. Right now in our small 65 member church we have a Pastor and 5 Elders all men of course. When any idea is brought up by any members to help grow the church, help save money or even help bring in money the ideas are immediately shot down. Now we are accused of being gossiping, hateful trouble makers for having the nerve to share our feelings with each other. This is how our Pastor reacted when one member told him how many members where feeling.

Sorry sir I think in our case it is the Pastor that suffers from the Entitled mentality… But I most certainly agree with your study and the main reason why folks leave a church…. I am in the same boat as you. They will not allow me to serve. I have this amazing idea that could bring millions to Christ, but I can get no help from church.

I evangelize on my own and bring about 15 people to the Lord per week. I wanted to work with our missions department, but they do not return calls. I presented it to several pastors and 1 likes it but it has to be approved by a committee and 9 times out of 10 a committee will say no. The church itself is a country club. Most churches are too busy building their own personal exclusive kingdom. I completely agree. Music is important. Some music in church is outright Satanic. What is wrong with people desiring a real community that cares?

When my mom died and no one really did anything, I knew that this was not the family I wanted. The church itself is an exclusive Country Club and that is why people leave. When I have a real problem, I stay away from church. Church should be the first place I go. But instead of getting loving concern or living water, I get self- righteous filthy rags filled with dirty water. I agree Dr. As a former pastor who constantly held onto the idea that people who leave are the ones with the problems, I can now say that such a attitude is a self-delusion motivated by self-preservation instead of wisdom.

And almost everything I see online written by people in full-time ministry falls into the same trap. I would love to see what a minister has to say about it who does not accept pay from the congregation. Would we even encourage such a thing anymore? When a person can see that the church or the Lord Jesus owes them nothing, then they will be able to be taught and lead into being a disciple of Jesus Christ. You cannot see the Kingdom of God without being born again,maybe some places are trying to up the number on the registry rather than winning souls!

And if it a re occurring issue, one would think the leaders need some Soul searching! And please explain to me where church membership is talked about in the Bible??? Instead, God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the less honorable, 25 so that there would be no division in the body, but that the members would have the same concern for each other.

I agree! Expecting something from your congregation that you are not modeling.. Do what we say and not what we do rarely works. Rarely do I encounter a church group whose leadership is willing to confront real problems in how they do things. But when those problems are systematic it often has to do with leadership: — Not giving opportunity to serve e.

The church is not microsoft and Bill Gates is not worshiped there. Too many churches have become like a business and only deepened the entitlement problem. In your example giving should be in the form of entrance fee and the church be all paid staff. Although, Jesus allowed people to walk away on more than one occasion. People are human beings, therefore they ARE entitled to certain things human rights, happiness, love etc.

The entitlement mindset is what drives people to succeed and creates great leaders and unique individuals. What is the point in working hard if you are not going to get anything in the end. Religion states that you will have an enjoyable afterlife and to not be to concerned about this one. Why not become the best you that you can be?

Why not see each other as equal but with different talents and unique developments? Of course this mindset can get out of control, but so can any other mindset. Church is about changing people, not just bad people but good people as well. They put it into your head that you are a broken sinner who is evil from birth. Leaving the church to prove two things 1: Babies do evil things and 2: God is real outside of evidence. So yeah go ahead and put the blame on the people, try and change them and morph them into what you want so that they stay. This sounds like the making of a cult to me.

Maybe they are leaving because they feel that the bible is just a story. I will do everything I can to get people OUT of a church that thinks this way. I can only hope more people can escape so that they may be able to learn how to think for themselves and do so freely. How sad the world will be if we are all the same.

Long live diversity. You made some good points Joshua….. Our innermost being sings of the Joy of the Lord and our lives are testimonies of His love and grace operating there-in! Testimony is powerful …. God bless you to realize His amazing Grace and Love! Regards Carmel Sherwood. Well said! Apart from that transformative work, grace would be empty. Look deeper. I agree with the sentiment of this comment yet there also seems to be a spirit of control that permeates these churches. We must remember that the Church is the body and not the establishment itself.

The pastor is the leader — hence he should lead by example. Pastors are stretched thin, I know, however mentoring and showing enthusiastic interest in members who come to serve and desire to grow, should come first and foremost when it comes to this topic. Nothing is more deflating than earnestly desiring to be a part of the church and serve in a manner you have interest, and being excluded or ignored.

This is where the politics often come into play; the cliques, or fiefdoms snuff out any spark that begins to shimmer. Often when the discouraged member attempts to explain or address the issue, they are met with promises of inclusion. Unfortunately when this confused and bewildered member decides to move on, they are quickly bombarded with Biblical legality — hurled in harsh undertones.

I have personally experienced this and know that I would rather watch a seedy televangelist who cannot damage me from afar, than to continue to subject myself and my family to the hints of cultish theater as mentioned above. He did explain that we can have good reasons for faith though. He also went into the philosophical premise that we have faith in many things. But, people generally put trust or belief into at least something in their life. And absolutely not trap anyone in a church.

This article seems oversimplified. I know of a young man who served at church, faithfully, every Sunday. Years later, I ran into him. He had fallen away. Did they assume he changed churches? If he had, so what? He had served there faithfully for years, so he deserved their care and their concern.

SCRIPTURAL MEDITATION

This young man always went above and beyond. He loved the Lord and those he ministered to. But, did the church value him? Not even the worth of a sheep. But, he left and no one bothered. Others I know have been through the same thing. The shepherds need to stop worrying about offending or prying, get out there and search. Most everyone wants to help. Can you help? At my church of over 4, members, I recommended a song, and a few weeks later, it was shared with the entire congregation. When I heard it, my heart soared with praise to God, and the church was blessed.

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Maybe some worship leaders need to loosening up and realize that maybe God does want to bless the congregation with a song outside their regular repertoire? One church a friend attended, the pastor was always gone. In his stead, he appointed someone to teach. But the person he appointed was a pretty new believer. They stayed, but they suffered. Who was acting entitled here? My brother attended a church that was trying to raise money for a new building. Every Sunday, the priest spent his entire sermon time asking for money.

Guilting people into giving. In my area, a lot of churches meet in schools. It reduces the overhead, but still provides a reasonable location to meet. I go to a large church. For all I know, the study no longer meets, but, without a call, what am I supposed to assume? They picked up my voice message at 2am and forgot? Acting entitled? Or just hurt? Were they ill? Had they called the church for help and no one responded? How many times did they call? I think too many times, churches need more office and pastoral staff to ensure the place runs smoothly and no one falls between the cracks.

But, instead, they talk about bringing in more church members. What is the church supposed to do with that money? Care for the pastor, the staff and the building. Then, help needy church members, tithe to ministries, assist missionaries, help the persecuted church, assist pro-life ministries that help girls in their community, etc.

And if the church is missing it on this one, they may as well close their doors. I agree that many in the church need to learn what it is to be a servant, however, many of us would serve if leaders would ask. But, we need to remember that mothers are some of the most sleep-deprived, over-worked people on the planet. But, do a thorough search of the scriptures. Mentoring is great. It takes time. But, there are people who would love to help. Many seniors feel their life has no meaning. They could be filled with a greater sense of purpose, and younger people who are in grave need of support and guidance could be spared from divorce, falling away, and delivered from addictions.

A couple of churches I attended had great training. They offered seasonal or weekly classes, so they were never lacking volunteers. Others churches express they need help. I prefer to leave the back door open. You want help be helpful. You want people to reach out, reach out with your own arms. I started to put out a little bit of effort and found a gift is something for which nothing is expected in return. Until the church shopper puts away the poor me mirror the dack door will always need a coat of paint on the inside. Why do the cry babies have to get leprosy before they really get a hold of God???

How about special needs? You would have greater success with a cricket farm than a special needs program. OH, am I too harsh or are my Sunday shoes deteriorating from exposure to the tears of self centered cry babies? There you go. Good job pastor bennett! You have given and accurate anecdotal example if why people are leaving the church.

Because of crusty old attitudes like that.

Of course God should be capitalized. But the writer if that post was obviously using very informal typing techniques. What if I told you I was one of the chosen people of Hebrew heritage and that I was offended that you even wrote the name of Elohim. Would you even get that reference? Just quit being crotchety silly. There you go…. You have given an accurate anecdotal example of why people are leaving the church. Because of young millennial attitudes like that. Of course god should be capitalized. But the writer of that post may not understand things the way you or I do.

What if I told you……that many find it offensive in the church today because people on both sides point their crotchety or millennial little fingers at each other instead of at themselves, and we are sick of watching it. Just quit being so super spiritual, and try to have purpose in your life…. See if You can accomplish that. To those making excuses about not capitalizing God when writing.

Why would anyone not take the time to capitalize God when they write a comment, or an article or anything? This is not legalistic; no one hates legalism more than I do. This trend of minimizing the name of God for convenience shows an attitude. God is not some home-boy or peer, He is GOD! He deserve respect and honor. Remember He said to not take His name in vain……that means more than using His name in profanity, that means taking his name lightly.

This is one place where, if you are going to comment, spell everything you want with small letters, but give God the honor due to Him. And by the way, I am not a pastor or a preacher or a church leader, I am a middle aged woman who has been hurt by a certain church deeply, but God is healing me and I am so grateful to Him. I will not hold back the honor due to God because of what happened to me. Please keep in mind that many people are still not computer savvy and not be the best typists, especially those who have not grown up with the technology that we have today. To me that indicates someone who may not be adept with typing or and not, as people seem to feel, lazy or disrespectful of God.

Sigh… That is the type of nonsense that turns people off from church. Instead to taking the time to understand people and their background, Christians automatically criticize and jump to conclusions. Pastor Lee, if you are still following this thread, I hope that you are doing well and have found comfort in that church or a new church. God is not interested in the Pharisee spirit. He is concerned about the heart and our spiritual lives, not the letter of the law. Lee, Love to hear your thoughts, ideas and insight from that experience of multiple pastors after yours resigned. I have had several churches turn their back on me.

When I was younger, it was because I had long hair. Later, I had a very painful divorce and when I called my pastor he just told me to let her go. She moved to another church, started seeing another sunday school teacher who was married and they said and did nothing. The irony is that she came back two years later only to leave me again after a month and go right back to this married man. I am hurt, confused, lost and feel betrayed. And the church remains silent on the matter. My faith has been crushed and I feel as if God has abandoned me no matter how hard I pray. My husband I and went apart approximately 20 years ago.

The divorce decree stipulate he pay child support. I complained to his pastor and my complain fell on deaf ears. Eventually he remarry and went on to make a new family. Our children are now full grown adults. The child support our children should have been getting and will never get is now going to his new found family.

God would now have it that we are all at the same church. But it is a challenge for me. God has given me strength to overcome all the obstacles. Trust in God to see you through. The best years of your life is yet to come. God has not abandoned you. Hold on to his hands and allow Him to work out His purpose for your life. I think your pastor was right in saying let her go, especially since you describe her behavior. You, your Pastor, not even God will go against her free will to make her stay. We all have free will and God allows us to choose.

She made her choice. Now what God WILL do is emotionally heal you, strengthen you, help you overcome the hurt and help you find someone who is much better and deserving of you. He will teach us how to make better decisions in choosing mates if need be. However, your situation is not the churches fault. All they can do, at best, is offer advice, prayer and a comforting word. Be blessed. Unfortunately, there are many needy people in the world; some with very complicated problem situations involving emotional and physical issues leading to a lifetime of baggage; some requiring professional help.

Most churches do their best, but it is very unfair to walk into a church and dump a lifetime of problems into a pastor or elders lap and expect them to fix it for you…. And in many cases some words of encouragement and prayer is the best that can be offered.

And what right has God given you to do so? And is encouragement and prayer really the best you can do? I challenge anyone on that. Very good point! Sometimes we tend to forget that the church is hospital for the sick……not a hotel for the saints. Jesus said…. Actually, part of that is his churches fault. They could have easily not allowed her to attend — which is the Biblical response to someone who refuses to repent of sin. First of all my beloved brother Fredo, Never allow anything that anyone see is or anything that you may go through Put you in a state of mind way you ever believe that God has abandoned you.

He has not. Our Heavenly Father gave us a something that maybe we could have done without. He gave us the right to choose The path and direction we desire to travel. The power to choose can sometimes be a dangerous thing. But, God will never abandon you… we need only to open the door and invite Him into our hearts… and mind reading His Holy Word… search the scriptures. But brother, you have to understand that God has never abandon you, God never abandon his children who love him and trust him and wait for him, and for sure he heard your prayer.

God has seen your hurt, and if God has been silent is because he know better. You have to ask yourself, what the bible says about this matter and do follow it and do them. God has giving us the word for us to know what we must do in a situation like this. The bible says, seek first the Kingdom of God and his Righteousness and then he will give you the desire of your heart.

When something was not meant to be there nothing you can do to change that, but God always has the best things for you and when you never expecting you will rejoice so much on how good it was to wait on the Lord. Because everything that the Lord God gives to us are good and last long. Trust him he will never fail you. God bless brother. Do not lose faith in God. Remember people and God are not the same. The reality is that most churches are not up to par. So to sound so mean just have to say what the Word of The Lord says.

I feel we are living in the last days. But I do not understand Christian churches who have 3 services on a Sunday morning service. But no Sunday night services at all. A lot of those people have no choice. Small group meetings I am in an agreement of. But Sunday night service your not going to make any excuses. The LORD prepares a table and also makes us to lie down in a place of rich sustenance. We must both bring the word as well as bring the feeble TO the table to dine.

Many churches fail or struggle because they refuse to fix systems that are not user-friendly. This has not been an easy decision. I went to my pastor a couple of different times and could not even get counsel or prayer offered from him. Once I told him I was backsliding and needed some help. During a church revival I went forward and spoke with my pastor during invitation. I told him God was speaking to me about serving in the church again and I was passionate about seeking lost people and going out visiting lost people. I let that go. Then my mother in-law lay dying in hospital for 4 days and he never visited.

We are a small southern baptist church of about active members and the pastor speaks of visiting dying family members often. This has been a heartbreaking thing for us. Our church seems to be experiencing problems. Some of the members who sought counsel from 1 or more of the assistant pastors about personal issues in their lives later heard about their conversations with the pastors from other staff members. It appears that the staff members are gossiping about what some members have confided in.

When one of the affected members brought this up to the Senior Pastor, he in a sense dismissed her and later suggested she might want to find another church. Gossip is harmful and even toxic when the church staff is engaging in it and repeating what should be confidential. How to stop this? Could it be quite possibly that you seen good results with one on one mentoring because you took the time to share the gospel of love?

I mean how does the church people expect to show gods love outside of the church when they have a hard time showing it in the church. This article of entitlement and lack of servitude being the reason just shows how much church has lost its way. Come on people church wake up! Show the gospel of love to your brother and sisters in christ by going to those people and connecting. Then we can go outside and show that same gospel of love to our neighbors. I agree with your comment so much. It is hard to stay in a community that does not seem to care.

Churches are made up of broken people who have created broken systems. We all must show mercy. For me, I am in the process of confronting. I find several church practices completely unacceptable. Failing to comfort the broken hearted is unacceptable to me. Failing to have adequate evangelism is unacceptable to me. Failing to give opportunity to do wonderful things to build the Kingdom of God is unacceptable.

Apostolic Fathers

The church itself has become an exclusive club whereby only certain people are qualified to do certain things. According to the Bible, Jesus is head of the church and we are all just brothers. This is what Jesus tried to explain to the Pharisees. When the blind man got healed, he tried to explain that he was blind and now he can see.

The church is now exclusive instead of inclusive. Those not included need a place to go. I agree with you Lori. I left the church because I was never accepted as a mentally ill person with depression. People manipulated my family and used us as lab rats. He is love for my family. He cares and He heals. Do you actually have data and surveys that support this theory?

I know for a fact that I left to avoid engagement with others who sought power as I never sought to be a leader in life, yet I have been one that many have consulted since I was very young for whatever reason. Can you get along with ALL people in your life? However, I am sure that you know them all. Please open your doors and do not push anyone away with posts like this. What my question is if you are doing all these things and the pastor gives you a letter asking why you are not looking at him while he is ministering, how should one answer or take this question.

The pastor and his wife are taking this as not having a pure heart. This is the person as to whom I am. I have been a member for more than 5 years and they have known me to be the same since becoming a member. How do one handle? My family went to two churches, one traditional and one AOG. I had a muscular dystrophy and then my husband got cancer.

He acted put off. Only when my husband was dead did that pastor call to offer the church for a funeral. Instead, I elected to go to the Catholic Church where a priest had visited him dozens of times. As a lay person, I have visited the sick and dying far more and do not have a nice car to show for it. I wanted to add one reason. Some people may have had at one time a great willingness to serve their church but then were hurt by leadership gone awry and now is crippled by fear and the inability to trust church leadership. Exactly what I would comment on.

The Pastor and Elders should seek out a one on one relationship with the flock. Now this does not mean that a Pastor has to continually converse with the member every time they see one another. That would be ridiculous and not genuine. A Pastor that is viewed as very distant is a set back for the church. Plain and simple. The leaders need to get out their inner circle of friends and make others feel they are included in his ministry.

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Otherwise you have members that are not committed or they decide to leave. It seems alot of responsibility is put on the pastor. Is there a example in new testament of a voted in pastor too preach sermons week after week for years,visit the sick,bury the flocks family members when they pass,etc.?

Also the holy Spirit is supposed to have the freedom too place each member sheep in his or her functioning position. Maybe some leave bc there is no building that can hold a Love that is only expressed through the whole body functioning under the heads hip of Jesus Christ Alone. His Love cannot be harnessed in a way that dims his light. With good intention ,I think most christians want to serve in ther church. Has the church become more about other things rather than the one thing. Jesus has to be the reference point.

By him,through him,for him,to him. His bride is either flowing in step with her grooms new song and drawing multitudes to him through her free expression of his reciprocating Love. Or she is fragmented an stepping all over her grooms feet thus expressing a song that he never wrote. Are we doing this His wa? The church is in a leadership crisis. We have plenty of pastors who can lead from a platform through teaching and preaching but do little else to connect with their people throughout the week. I agree that it is a leadership issue. My experience indicates that on the average, pastors jump congregations with a frequency that is not much better than the lay membership.

How can a pastor lead the charge for long term committment if he is unwilling to deal with the discomfort that goes with it? I totally agree with you Mr. Dave McAuley. But people are blind to those in need. Love is the key. Love as Jesus did. I do feel led where I am going now, and have signed up for 3 classes in which I feel that I will be seriously be connected on and off campus.

God Bless. I had a similar experience recently. My wife and I had a crisis that put us at odds with each other in a legal matter. I had been a church volunteer and weekday service attender, whereas my wife was able only to attend on Sundays. My Pastor had initially met with me once, promised his help and support and understanding. I requested he reach out to my wife, which he promised to do and give me some feedback.

He promised to call me back, etc, and never did. However, his wife was there supporting my wife!!! I have even attended church in the meantime, and he has promised to call me, get together to talk, and never did. It has been 2 months since the incident and nothing! This is also not the first church things like this have happened to me in. I now think that this is endemic to all churches, due to the fact that they are defacto, if not dejure, being led by women. Women have all the influence and the men are milqtoasts. The only people to stand by me were the one couple, and they got a lot of flack for their trouble.

I get more staying home and studying the bible for myself at this point. Who needs it? Hi Adam. I am so sorry for the experience you had. I feel you pain and frustration. However, do not give up on church and the fellowship that is so very important. Pray for God to lead you to a place of worship that you can be warmly welcomed and plugged into.

The 1st service I attended was all about connecting!!! How about that…God is amazing today, yesterday, and forever. I hope you can find a place of worship you can call home. I wil be praying for you. Not all, but most! I will not even say how wicked my previous pastor was. Because some of what he did was criminal, let alone immoral and ungodly.

But elders would never RUN him off. They protected him and supported him while the sheep were being abused and leaving. No elder that I know of ever called him down and rebuked him for anything. Anytime he was questioned, he would lie his way out of it. And the elders would pray for him and let it go. The elders and church staff are just as much at fault for not stopping him and protecting the sheep. I agree with Dave — This is a leadership issue. But why are the people leaving if he was that great? We found out after many years. He talked a lot I mean a lot about loyalty, and he was surrounded by boards and people who are willing to fight for him.

I started to think this is madness and cultic. The fall and rise starts from the leadership the pastor preached one Sunday so it did. This is leadership issue period. I pray for people who have been hurt by the leadership that they may find a group that they can connect and be healed. Thank you. I was going to say something similar.

Though I understand what this gentleman is saying, the leadership has must take responsibility as well for creating the illusion of entitlment by their example. Too many entitled pastors who think they need armor bearers and servants to carry their bible and grovel over their leaders. They think they are the ones to be served. A heiraechial system is NOT biblically sound. Lead by example and the people will follow. We are to serve one another in love. This is a major dysfunction that could be expounded upon almost indefinitely.

Do you really want new leaders? Are you willing to let them lead in their own way? Are you willing to step back and not micromanage them? Are you waiting on them to fail and then tell them they are incompetent? I am not sure any organization from churches to political parties to civic organizations wants new leaders because things might be done in a different manner than they were.

Now different does not have to mean incorrect or immoral though to many people different equals wrong. I look at the parable of the talents. They wanted me to stack chairs and I have a foot problem. I would rather listen to God and let man disapprove. Your analysis agrees with my experience. Related to helping people change that attitude is keeping them in the church long enough to allow that to happen.

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If they are not made to feel welcome in the church by intentionally including them in the activities of the church and treating them as a valuable member they will not want to stay long. As an associate in one church much of my time was spent greeting everyone, talking to them and taking an interest in them. During that 4 years the church grew and we lost only one or two families to other churches. The senior pastor made it a point to acknowledge new people and any noteworthy events in peoples lives and I kept him informed of such things.

Thanks Tom. Your role in ministry there was invaluable. I am thankful for your servant mentality. Before I make my comment, let me give some brief background. I have been a believer for over 25 years and a member of three different Baptist churches since I am a bible college and seminary graduate B. How about people leaving a church because they are not being used? That is the case I am currently in. I was teaching an Adult Bible Fellowship and then I was replaced with no warning or explanation.

I have never been asked to fill the pulpit. What is strange is that our church houses a seminary within its complex. I would rather find a church where I can be used rather than be penalized for being a seminary graduate. Many times I found the ones running a certain ministry is not looking for others to join or help — no matter how many times you say or ask. What do you do then? Been a active church member for 10 years always there when service happens.

I could not agree with you more. Going through something very similar, I have learned that there are a variety of reasons why this is happening. Whatever the case is, your church should have offered you a staff position and called on you to fill the pulpit whenever needed. A real church would have done this. One thing you can take a look at though. Since churches and leadership tend to be consistent on issues like this, take a look at other examples in the church of how they are equiping people for ministry. You may find, that your church only gives lip service to training and equiping for ministry, even with a seminary housed on the campus.

Also, I am curious. Is your church a small church of less than or is it a large church. I am under the impression that the smaller the church, the less likely you will ever be used for ministry to the capacity in whuch you are able. It could be you do have your degrees. Yet, is it simply the pulpit, where you feel the razzle dazzle?

As in construction. When a person knows how to do all the little things. That person, will never be without work. In my case, the issue of the pulpit was simply the most visable public blazing sign stating that the church was not interested in supporting someone called to ministry. Additionally, to use the construction analagy, my case is one of being the skilled laborer being passed over for someone who is not even expected to be on the jobsite.

Good luck breaking in to that! Pastor is great at preaching sermons, but not much else. Where in the Bible does it say a pastor will give an account of your soul? As Baptists, we agree with scripture that we are a priesthood of believers… that means no priest, pastor or minister is going to be giving any account on your behalf. He is the one there and while I believe there is some value in being faithful to your pastor, I have seen way too many in ministry because no one wants to tell them they are terrible in ministry… and in some cases, should be disqualified and fired because of their personal lives.

Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. Of course every believer is accountable for their own soul before the Lord, but as the shepherd of that local flock, that local shepherd will give an account for his service and shepherding. This is a totally different subject than the priesthood of believers. Therefore if Adam has a conflict or sees a dangerous blind spot then he should in gentleness and love alert his shepherd rather than carry what appears to be a sizable enough concern that he would burn him in front of an anonymous audience, yet not approach that man to his face.

That my brother is what I am referring too. In Christ,. Thanks for the clarification Brent… though we are both fluent in English, this terrible language can be confusing. My advice to Adam is to bring your concerns up to your pastor. However, if the leadership in your church has not brought it up, they are either ok with the status quo or simply have no idea what should be expected of a pastor. If the latter is true, no amount of input from you will make a difference… It is ok to go and serve somewhere else. But have you gone to your pastor s and humbly asked why they have seemingly bypassed or overlooked you?

Let me gently encourage you to focus on servant ministry needs that are readily available to you and not expect to be promoted to the higher seat of public ministry. I do appreciate your perspective on this Pete and I have done this. It is not about an unreasonable expectation for promotion. Fortunately, when I did take my concerns to the pastor, he at least made it a priority to fill the pulpit in his absence from within our church. Unfortunately, many churches have the same problem. Generally, churches that are like this often have a low expectation of discipleship over all. As for me, I am moving into church planting now.

However, since my calling still is and I suspect will remain youth and student ministries, I am actively recruiting possible bi-lingual pastors to reach communities in my area of California… with whom I can serve as part of a team. John Owen between Orthodoxy and Modernity. Editors: Willem van Vlastuin and Kelly M. This volume offers fresh reflections on John Owen, a leading Reformed theologian who sat on the brink of a new age.

Answer 1: Any Public Teaching in the Church

His seventeenth- century theology and spirituality reflect the growing tensions, and pre-modern and modern tendencies. Exploring Owen in this context helps readers better understand the seventeenth-century dynamics of individualization and rationalization, the views of God and self, community and the world. Contributors are: Joel R. Beeke, Henk van den Belt, Gert A. Hyde, Kelly M. Kapic, Reinier W. McGraw, David P. Murray, Carl R.

Trueman, Willem van Vlastuin. Author: Andrew Robinson. Drawing on the philosophy of C. Scientific spin-offs include a new perspective on the problem of the origin of life and a novel hypothesis about the evolution of human distinctiveness. The result is an original contribution to Trinitarian theology and a bold new way of integrating philosophy, science and religion.

The Main Reason People Leave a Church

Author: Cathal Doherty. How do sacraments differ from superstition? For Enlightenment philosophers such as Kant, both are merely natural actions claiming a supernatural effect, an accusation that has long been ignored in Catholic theology. In Maurice Blondel on the Supernatural in Human Action: Sacrament and Superstition , however, Cathal Doherty SJ reverses this accusation through a theological appropriation of Blondel's philosophy of action, arguing not only that sacraments have no truck with superstition but that the 'Enlightened' are themselves guilty of that which they most abhor, superstitious action.